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+----- Thread: EUROS (/showthread.php?tid=10466)
RE: EUROS - Baggiebob(BBB) - 12-07-2021
It's the same old same old. Hype up the players, make them sound invinsable, as in past tournaments, and again heartbreak for the players and me.
By way, oh why did they put 3 youngsters to take the penalties that were weak, beats me. Why didn't the senior players step up? That was why in my opinion they lost it, plus sitting back in the 2nd half and not going for it.
Sorry if this upsets people, but that's how I see it.
RE: EUROS - St Charles Owl - 12-07-2021
(12-07-2021, 00:55)Baggiebob(BBB) Wrote: It's the same old same old. Hype up the players, make them sound invinsable, as in past tournaments, and again heartbreak for the players and me.
So disagree with this. Going into this tournament all I read about was how good France or Belgium or Portugal were, even Germany were mentioned and that England might struggle against these teams!! Yet in the end the two teams in the final were there on merit and ultimately the best team in the tournament won it. We are ranked No3 for a reason, we reached a final for the first time in 55 years, if that disappointed you then surely your expectations are the problem because we could only have gone one small step further and we would have won the whole thing.
This England team and squad in general is probably as good as any we have seen in the past, we will have a decent shot in the WC and in 3 years we will be back in it again for the Euros and out of all the so called big teams us and Italy might have the best younger players coming through.
RE: EUROS - Lord Snooty - 12-07-2021
Well Grealish has come out and said he wanted to take one. The manager picked the first five, which was quite obvious really with bringing Rashford and Sancho on so late.
I just wish they'd all taken the Maguire route and just belt the bloody thing as hard as you can instead of trying to outfox the keeper.
RE: EUROS - Devongone - 12-07-2021
When facing a penalty in grassroots, or often grassrots, football I always felt I was in with a better chance if the kicker was either looking at me, or where he wanted me to think it was going. That's what Rashford got wrong. If he'd been playing for 30 minutes before he took it then I'm guessing muscle-memory would have kicked in and he'd have rolled the ball into the corner of the net. After he'd missed, the other two lads were rabbits in Donnaruma's headlights. They did well to get their efforts on goal, but both were poor penalties from very, very good young players.
The song NNN Nineteen keeps running through my head. Send the young black boys in to take the bullets. Chaotic management!
Harry Maguire's penalty was unstoppable.
Gareth Southgate seems a nice guy, he was a very good player and he is going to get a lot of praise for his management, but much of it is undeserved. We had the second best squad of players in the tournament and in World Football terms only France has more young players aged 18-25 coming through to the level for international football. We are pretty much neck and neck with Spain and ahead of Germany, Italy, Holland, Brazil and Argentina in sheer numbers. So Southgate got the second best squad to finish second .......... to a set of individuals who made themselves, or were made, into the best team. Italy CLEARLY deserved to win.
Where Mancini and his team were able to think on their feet and change tack half an hour in when they realised the impact Kane was having by lying deep, Southgate and his team stuck to their script even though it was clearly no longer working. Mason Mount has not been at his best in the tournament and clearly needed removing so that a player with the ability to link our central midfield players with attack could enter the fray. That player was Grealish. He wasn't trusted until we had stopped trying to score and had settled for penalties. He has the guts to stand up and take a penalty plus an excess of skill - as expected he wasn't selected. We fear individuality. We fear the maverick. English conservatism!
Once Kane began to be ineffective we should have been playing away from him, both to prevent him getting clattered and to allow him to break for the box and possibly get on the end of something. That never happened. He was never in the box, never had a shot yet is our major hope of a goal. If Kane didn't see what was happening Southgate should, indeed it should have been one of his contingencies and he should have made Kane aware of what he wanted to do in those circumstances.
I know Rice had done a lot of running, but he was one of the few players who was really doing his job and troubling the Italians. Removing him seemed abject, especially for Henderson when we had Bellingham there.
If we were bringing on a penalty-taker why not Calvert-Lewin, who does actually take them!?
I'd worry about a football manager if I agreed with him completely, but I reckon if Mancini had managed us and Southgate the Italians, we'd have won in extra time at the worst. The rest of Europe will be wondering why we left all that fresh attacking talent on the bench when we knew pennos for us is always a dog's chance.
If we hadn't spent the last week congratulating ourselves on lifting the nation out of pandemic gloom, booed the Italian anthem, got drunk, had a pitch invader, and started fighting, we might have finished an honourable second, but we wrecked even that. I feel sorry for those who put their heart and soul into this. The players and the manager certainly did. But you don't always play well and human beans don't always make good decisions. We have a potentially very, very good team. By the World Cup it should be even better. I hope our young stars will be allowed to slip the leash and show what they can really do.
RE: EUROS - Baggiebob(BBB) - 12-07-2021
I suppose that is was I wanted to say Devon, I wasn't rubbishing the team St Charles, they did marvelously well for a young team, and will be a threat in the future, just the final tactics which lead to there downfall.
RE: EUROS - WakeyTerrier - 12-07-2021
I'm back, not jumping for joy either.
Where to start..
Arrived at Wembley way at about 4.15ish, nearly 4 hours before kick off. Wembley Way was heaving, I've not seen Wembley like that ever before.
Got in the ground at 5pm and had a couple of pints of overpriced beer, took up our position in our seats and soaked up the atmosphere, which in general was good.
As the game got closer we started hearing reports that Wembley had closed down the turnstiles as ticketless fans had breached security outside. Little did we know that it was chaos in the concourse around Wembley. People were squeezing in through the turnstile without tickets and when they were throwing them out of the exit gates then dozens of others would push the stewards back and force entry. The stewards were overwhelmed and fights broke out between those without tickets and those that had bought tickets trying to boot them back out. Has to be said the stewards and the policing in and around Wembley were under staffed and overwhelmed.
Back to the game, what a start...dreamland and what a sweet finish by Shaw, the place was rocking. We desperately need a second goal but we didn't do enough to get it. I thought we looked comfortable even though Italy had a lot of the ball until Mancini made the double sub on 54/55minutes. Italy then looked more of a threat and to be fair it stayed that way for most of the remainder of the game.
I thought the ref could have given us a lot more and booked the Italians earlier but he didn't but seemed to give them a free kick every time they fell over.
Penalties, well what can you say.
Rashford...dreadful, what was that run up about and then the shot...dreadful. If you are going to f##k about with a run up like that then you at the very least have to hit the target.
Sancho and Saka, credit to the goalie he made the saves
This morning I read about racist abuse to these lads, these do not represent the crowd from last night. Yes Rashford got some stick for his penalty but not one comment about the colour of his skin.
Any way overall its progression
World Cup losing semi finalist
Euro 2020 Runner up.
Qatar 2022 winners????
Next stop hopefully Budapest and Hungary away in September providing they let away fans travel
RE: EUROS - Devongone - 12-07-2021
As regards the Marcus Rashford penalty - I do think the more you supposedly do to fool the keeper, faltering run up, hop, skip and jump, look one way, kick the other, try to get him to dive before you roll in your kick ......... ALL of them offer a smart keeper clues. It is like being clued-in to the body-language of someone who is spinning you a lie.
A penalty kick just needs to end up in the net. It does not need to illustrate how clever and deceptive the kicker is ... and that's what some of them are saying, look at me look at me, look at me.
Some penalty takers will very quickly glance at their favoured corner before the whistle is blown, and they do it without even moving their head, but if you can catch the eye movement, it's worth going that way, because they can't help doing it - it's the bit of security they need.
A very curved run up makes it very easy to kick to the side you are coming from, and necessitates very obviously opening up the body to go the other side.
I hate matches being decided on penalties, but there is a lot to scoring and to saving them. Personally I used to try and watch the kicking foot as closely as possible and only go on the very B of the bang (because I had an exaggerated view of the speed of my own reflexes and the spring in my calf muscles to take me to any point in the goal). And yes I'd contend Harry Maguire's penalty was as near perfect as you can get, simple technique, no obvious clues, struck viciously into the top corner. If a goalie stopped that I'd want VAR to check how early he moved.
Every wrinkle the kicker comes up with is a sign of weakness, not of strength. If the kicker is 100% confident he should have no interest in the keeper whatsoever. And right down to grassroots level you can find absolutely excellent penalty takers.
RE: EUROS - hibeejim21 - 13-07-2021
(12-07-2021, 00:37)Lord Snooty Wrote: Have to say, Italy were the better team. Not just on the night, but throughout the tournament as well.
Chiellini and Jorginho should've been red carded though. Both for violent conduct. Jorginho would've definitely been sent off in the Prima Donna League. The one on Saka when he pulled him back by the shirt collar. poor lad was nearly throttled. Very dangerous play.
Only thing I have to say about the manager, apart from him being brilliant, is that I don't think it was wise bringing the two kids on specifically just to take pens. They've come on cold and have a giant of a keeper in front of them. I'll not blame the experienced ones who bottled out, but come on lads, it's your job.
On to the future though. There are some great young lads coming through and we should be up for a good crack at the World Cup. I've always said that the Euros are like the warm up for that. It's a great experience to get to the final and now they have to take it on to the next level.
Mate - if chiellini had really wanted to stop saka he would be in hospital this morning. Trust me
By the rules of the game it was a yellow card and no more.
RE: EUROS - Lord Snooty - 13-07-2021
So you agree Jorginho should've been sent off then.
RE: EUROS - Devongone - 13-07-2021
I like Southgate as a man, but as a manager I'm not so sure. Why couldn't Rashford have come on for Sterling and have an actual run and a kick, he's a fckuin' wonderful player isn't he? Sancho is a player of astonishing skills, why was he reduced to last-minute dead ball kicker? Why couldn't Southgate, like Mancini, see what was happening & alter the pattern of play? The answer you'll eventually come to is that Gareth Southgate is an intelligent man, but he lacks that football shrewdness, that nous that made Mancini both as player and manager someone who could see how to change a game round, to influence what was happening. Nice Gareth hasn't got that and it can't be taught can it?
Had Southgate planned the penalties properly he'd have put his captain up first and the leader of his defence, Maguire, on last. Imagine the guts it took for 19 year old Bukayo Saka to agree to take the last penalty with the world watching and the game possibly hanging on it. He's one brave lad. If he couldn't play the game his biggest worry would be how he'd fit in with the posh kids at Oxford University next term. People should be celebrating him, not abusing him. The fearlessness of youth is largely a myth. You are fine so long as you aren't given pause for thought like Emma Raducanu at Wimbledon. If something goes wrong, or the whole thing stops and you are given time to consider the enormity of what you are being asked to do that fearlessness is no more than skin-deep.
And for all the criticism of Rashford (Including mine), he did get Donnaruma flopping like a beached whale towards the wrong corner before he scuffed his kick into the post. I don't agree with it as a method, and you can end up looking a xxxx or making the keeper look like one, but had he been given a few minutes of pitch time it would have worked and arguably given Sancho and Saka enough confidence to beat the big keeper too.