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+--- Thread: Trident renewal - parliamentary vote today! (/showthread.php?tid=4364)
RE: Trident renewal - parliamentary vote today! - ritchiebaby - 20-07-2016
Snooty, it is a deterrent, as has been proved, and the whole point of them is that they're not going to be used. And hopefully will continue to be so when the likes of Trump, Putin and Kim Jong-un have their fingers resting on the button.
Unfortunately the modern enemy cannot be fought against as we've no idea when, where or how it is going to strike. The only way to defeat it would be for us to have basic freedoms ripped out of our grasp and submit to a UK totalitarian dictatorship.
RE: Trident renewal - parliamentary vote today! - hibeejim21 - 20-07-2016
Tridents a complete waste of money,its not even an independent deterrent as it is leased from America and totally reliant on us technology. It would and could only be used if the usa deemed it so.
Trident is all about making politicians and arms manufacturers wealthy. It couldn't protect us from Isis for instance.
RE: Trident renewal - parliamentary vote today! - 0762 - 20-07-2016
You're right! The deterrent argument is old hat and has been 'doing the rounds' for years. Britain is inherently a war-mongering nation that also promotes arms deals with every Tom, Dick, Saudi Arabia and Israel and has been doing it for centuries!!!
The arms dealers are the biggest winners and they are ultimately the providers of all sorts of weapons/ordnance that kill innocent people. That includes WMDs, which are absolutely immoral and should be removed from Scottish soil as a matter of course. If there's such strong English support and opinion for the use of a US inspired deadly nuclear weapon, let them deliver it in their own country and keep it well away from our heavily populated regions in Scotland! I think the Scottish govt is absolutely right to ask for it's removal and that policy is in line with general Scottish public opinion on the issue.
RE: Trident renewal - parliamentary vote today! - ritchiebaby - 20-07-2016
(20-07-2016, 14:23)hibeejim21 Wrote: Tridents a complete waste of money,its not even an independent deterrent as it is leased from America and totally reliant on us technology. It would and could only be used if the usa deemed it so.
Trident is all about making politicians and arms manufacturers wealthy. It couldn't protect us from Isis for instance.
It's not supposed to protect us from ISIS. Because the "deterrent" argument has being going around for years is proof that it has been a deterrent. The WMDs that everybody fears have killed far fewer people than conventional weapons. I'm afraid that we'll just have to agree to differ on this one.
RE: Trident renewal - parliamentary vote today! - 0762 - 20-07-2016
The years of WMD non-conflict is a poor argument - it's a hypothetical one used to justify the use of a WMD as a means of protection!! I've listened to this kinda reasoning for decades and it's absolute nonsense with no great evidence to back it up!!!
It just suits their value judgement to have an American issued WMD that can kill millions!! To achieve what FFS????? It's immoral and that argument is used by hypocritical western politicians, and others, when they choose to do so and suits their political needs!! Hypocrites?? You're damn right they are!!! There are scores of countries that do not possess a WMD and I don't see any of these countries being attacked with a WMD any time soon!! It really pisses me off to hear these kinda 'better together' benefits from a Scottish perspective! What f##### threat has there ever been to the Scottish nation eh???? Absolutely none because we're a non-aggressive country with no war-mongering tendencies and I'd even argue that the terror threat on Scottish soil is minimal even though central govt pumps millions into the nation's security needs and I base that on all logged terror incidents in Scotland that cover the past 50-60 years - I can count them on one hand and the number of incidents are clearly miniscule and that includes the Glasgow Airport botched attack that actually involved medically qualified people who had a real 'beef' about the UK govt's aggressive foreign policy in their country!!
RE: Trident renewal - parliamentary vote today! - St Charles Owl - 21-07-2016
0762, once again your complete hatred of the English and anything associated with them rears its head!!! These weapons are not English or Scottish, they belong to the UK!! And to boot you label all the English as war mongers and all Scottish folk as happy peace loving Angels!! I really don't see how you can come to that conclusion considering every war we have been in for centuries has again been fought by soldiers of the U.K., including Scotland, but ok we will take all the credit for winning those wars but I will let you explain that to the brave Scottish regiments that have fought under the Union Jack down the centuries!!
I hope that no rogue nation develops nuclear weapons, but if they do I would prefer we could try to "deter" them from firing at us!! It will happen one day, and for me I would still rather have our own than not, but I would also like to see it scaled back and more effort put into developing weapons that can stop nuclear weapons before they reach us.
RE: Trident renewal - parliamentary vote today! - hibeejim21 - 21-07-2016
Trident doesn't belong to the UK.it is leased from the us,and cannot be utilised without American technology.
Union jack - butchers apron.
I feel zero pride. But there is no hatred of the English here....im married to one for a start!!
RE: Trident renewal - parliamentary vote today! - 0762 - 21-07-2016
(21-07-2016, 05:45)St Charles Owl Wrote: 0762, once again your complete hatred of the English and anything associated with them rears its head!!! These weapons are not English or Scottish, they belong to the UK!! And to boot you label all the English as war mongers and all Scottish folk as happy peace loving Angels!! I really don't see how you can come to that conclusion considering every war we have been in for centuries has again been fought by soldiers of the U.K., including Scotland, but ok we will take all the credit for winning those wars but I will let you explain that to the brave Scottish regiments that have fought under the Union Jack down the centuries!!
I hope that no rogue nation develops nuclear weapons, but if they do I would prefer we could try to "deter" them from firing at us!! It will happen one day, and for me I would still rather have our own than not, but I would also like to see it scaled back and more effort put into developing weapons that can stop nuclear weapons before they reach us.
Shut your biased face Saint Charles Owl! There was no use of the word hatred (or 'all the English people' - we're referring to UK/English gov violations down the years!!!) whatsoever in my threads! You've tried to 'play this kinda hate card' before and I generally ignore that accusation with utter contempt. You wanna behave yourself and stop personalising your arguments!
It's all about values and answering the basic question - do we want Trident, a WDM, and allied to that question - do we want it on Scottish soil? By the way, my wife is from Kent and her folks are originally from London. Also my father in law was previously in the navy and was posted on Trident subs operating from Faslane!!! HE IS ALSO VEHEMENTLY OPPOSED TO TRIDENT AND THANK GOD THERE IS A HUGE OPPOSITION IN THIS COUNTRY THAT SHARES THAT VIEW AS WELL!!Britain not a war-mongering nation and particularly England? Study the history of arms provision and also study our historical involvement in wars we should not have been embroiled in + other questionable associations with dodgy foreign powers!!!!!!
RE: Trident renewal - parliamentary vote today! - St Charles Owl - 21-07-2016
No you didn't use the word hatred, and maybe that is too strong a word, but throughout your responses you refer to Scotland not being a war mongering country while either alluding to, or outright saying England or Britain is!! If you want to debate the merits of WMDs then do so, you accuse me of personalising the arguments yet you consistently make this a Scotland/England thing, when at the end of the day neither of those countries actually exist when it comes to national defence, that is under the guise of the UK only. Take the countries out of the debate and debate the need or not for the weapons in the first place.
As regards Britain (which includes Scotland by the way) being war mongering, I dispute that as well. We have taken part in one war that I would suggest we should not have been embroiled in and that was Iraq, the rest of them for me were neccessary, certainly in the last 100 years or so.
RE: Trident renewal - parliamentary vote today! - Lord Snooty - 21-07-2016
Yes SCO, but the point is, they would never base these things anywhere near London. If it wasn't in Scotland they would be near Liverpool or Middlesbrough, nowhere near the fuckwit with her finger on the button.