+- Sports Babble - sports forum (https://www.sportsbabble.co.uk)
+-- Forum: Football (https://www.sportsbabble.co.uk/forumdisplay.php?fid=1)
+--- Forum: English Football Leagues (https://www.sportsbabble.co.uk/forumdisplay.php?fid=2)
+---- Forum: Sky Bet League Two (https://www.sportsbabble.co.uk/forumdisplay.php?fid=104)
+----- Forum: Chesterfield (https://www.sportsbabble.co.uk/forumdisplay.php?fid=85)
+----- Thread: CHED EVANS CHED EVANS O ******* HEAVENS!! (/showthread.php?tid=4298)
RE: CHED EVANS CHED EVANS O ******* HEAVENS!! - spireitematt - 20-06-2016
This has split the fan base and fans are falling out with one another.
RE: CHED EVANS CHED EVANS O ******* HEAVENS!! - Lord Snooty - 20-06-2016
(20-06-2016, 20:53)spireitematt Wrote: This has split the fan base and fans are falling out with one another.
It will do. He's poisonous. No good will come of this.
RE: CHED EVANS CHED EVANS O ******* HEAVENS!! - St Charles Owl - 20-06-2016
Saltergateborn I don't disagree with much that you say but I think Amelia summed it up best, I just don't get why you signed him with him not having played for four years nor with the circus that automatically comes with signing him!!!
RE: CHED EVANS CHED EVANS O ******* HEAVENS!! - spireitematt - 20-06-2016
Guilty or not it has tarnished the clubs reputation by association. I'm very very disappointed and in two minds whenever I want to attend matches or not as I don't think I would feel comfortable.
RE: CHED EVANS CHED EVANS O ******* HEAVENS!! - SaltergateBorn - 21-06-2016
Okay.
I`ve just watched the England game and it has put me in SUCH a good mood that I feel like making myself even more unpopular.
Amelia, as I see it you question the decision to sign Ched Evans on 2 grounds; one footballing, one morality.
On the footballing point, I agree entirely. After 4 years out of the game, it is indeed questionable whether he will ever be able to regain the touch and the sharpness that made him the player that he was. The club have taken a gamble on this, no doubt on the back of the judgment of Danny Wilson and Chris Morgan, who clearly know him well from his Sheffield United days and rate his ability. They may be right, they may be wrong; time alone will tell. But that is a separate issue entirely from the point I was making.
When you start talking about `morality`, however. you are dipping your toe into very murky waters. That word means means different things to different people. From a personal point of view, I watch football these days and am continually exasperated, frustrated and dismayed by the play-acting, diving, time-wasting, gamesmanship, the lack of respect for their fellow players (trying to get them booked or sent off) and the manipulation of officials that is commonplace in the game today. Let`s lump all of those together under one generic heading and call them what they are: cheating.
Unlike rugby - of both codes - which takes an attitude of zero tolerance to all of these, football merrily accepts them as `all part of the game`. (Those are the words of those great arbiters of all things righteous and moral, Sepp Blatter and Michel Platini.) Where`s the `morality` there, Amelia? We all accept them, indeed applaud them, if they win our team a free kick / penalty / goal but decry them in an instant if they are perpetrated by a member of the opposing team. Such is the tribalism of football. As a very wise man, much wiser than me (my father) once said to me just before he passed on 3 years ago; "Son, if you`re looking for integrity in football these days, I suggest you go out and buy yourself a bloody good microscope; you`ll need it!". He could remember - as I can (just) - the days when players kicked each other six feet up in the air and then just got up and got on with it. I thought about him just now; as it happens he was a Welshman, a very proud one, and without any doubt whatsoever he would be royally pi~~ing himself laughing right now if he was still with us.
As regards the `circus` that you talk about, SCO, again a fair point. But you know what they say, there`s no such thing as bad publicity. In the short term this may well have tarnished our reputation in the eyes of some, including some of our own supporters, but this is IN THE SHORT TERM. If Ched Evans is cleared at his retrial and goes on to score 30 goals this season, I suspect that a lot will be forgiven, such is the `morality` of football these days. However, as we all know mud sticks. Let`s be under no illusions, even if he is cleared at his retrial this guy will have this have this hanging over him for the rest of his career, if not his life.
Unlike the other party involved, whose anonymity will be preserved whatever the verdict at the retrial. Again; where`s the morality there, Amelia?
RE: CHED EVANS CHED EVANS O ******* HEAVENS!! - bluepooch - 21-06-2016
I honestly didnt follow the trial but correct me if im wrong but wasnt his conviction quashed ? .When this happens i believe there still has to be a retrial by law .
RE: CHED EVANS CHED EVANS O ******* HEAVENS!! - St Charles Owl - 21-06-2016
Saltergateborn, great points again. You are correct with the footballing side of things, it's a one year contract which gambles that he has natural ability that can once again be turned into him scoring plenty of goals. The season he was sent down he was by far the best striker in League one, it's that form that Wilson and Morgan are banking on being able to rediscover.
As regards the publicity, I do not subscribe to the theory you point out. Ask the Blunts or Oldham who both tried to get involved with him after his release from prison, they are both still suffering in some ways from that circus as I called it and one this is for sure it put a deep rift in their fan bases let alone their local sponsors etc.
I have always been of the opinion that once he has served his time he should be allowed to resume his career in whatever line of work he is in, just as you and I should have been and I deplore everything that Jean Hatchett tried to do during the time after he was released, but that's not morality, that's just following the letter of the law and allowing the justice system to take its course. Having said that I would not want him at my club due to the nature of the crime, but that is for other clubs and fans to decide upon. I am very surprised though that the club made this decision prior to the new trial in October, I just do not see the sense in that, he is currently innocent until proven guilty but is still charged with rape. Under those conditions he should not play for anybody, just like he shouldn't have continued playing for the Blunts after he was originally charged!! Once his trial is completed and he is proven innocent of rape (which I think he probably will be) then he can begin to rebuild his career.
RE: CHED EVANS CHED EVANS O ******* HEAVENS!! - Lord Snooty - 21-06-2016
Morality? The man's a rapist! End of.
RE: CHED EVANS CHED EVANS O ******* HEAVENS!! - Dancingwilldoit - 21-06-2016
Lord Snooty, Be very careful. The man MAY be a rapist but currently he simply isn't and until his retrial we wont know the answer. I am not happy with this one but if he is found not guilty in October I will give my team my support if and when he plays. If he is found guilty again, then the contract is terminated and Chesterfield are left with egg on their faces.
I presume our board are aware of the new evidence that secured his retrial and were prepared to take a gamble. I hope they are right and know what they are doing because this one really could go tits up.
As a Chesterfield supporter it doesn't sit comfortably with me and I wish they would have waited until after October to make any announcement. He joins the ranks of many other players who either cant hold their drink, turn to drugs or cant keep their tackle in their trousers and on the football pitch. Some have even managed to carry on a career in football after committing murder - at least 2 spring to mind.
I understand fully if fans turn away from the club but if come Christmas we are top of the table with Evans found not guilty and top scorer with 20 goals to his name, where will they sit then?
RE: CHED EVANS CHED EVANS O ******* HEAVENS!! - Devongone - 21-06-2016
SaltergateBorn I think I am in love with your dad and his microscope comment: there is loads of truth in all you say.
BUT we do know Ched's victim endured bucket loads of abuse, some of which apparently (and I don't actually KNOW this) came from people quite close to the player. We know she had to give up her life and move not house but town ......... All she did on the evidence so far was to be foolish enough to make herself vulnerable. The best interpretation imaginable of Ched's behaviour was that it was reprehensible.
I'm not at all mystified about why we moved now. If we had waited until after October and he is found not have raped the girl (and that law is framed by men remember) WE WOULD NOT EVEN HAVE BEEN IN THE RUNNING FOR HIS SIGNATURE. Furthermore we've just failed to sign Lee Novak after waiting weeks and desperately needed a newsworthy signing. By October we'd arguably have been bottom of the division and Ched would have been all those months from sharpness as a player even if we had then been able to sign him. By Christmas we might have a fit, free, committed Ched Evans scoring hatfuls ........ we extend his contract a year because he loves us now and in the summer we sell him for 2 or 3 million.
As regards our being able to sign other players, what does this do? We look like we want to win don't we? We have stolen a march whether I like it or not. Players are going to look at us and think, "if they get a sharp Ched Evans playing and that Dennis from non-league scoring goals ....... and they've got that nippy winger .......... maybe I should take a chance and sign too."
I'm 64 today. I was brought up on Racecourse Road. I've wanted Chesterfield to reach The Championship my whole life. I've always wanted a 30+ goals-a-season striker too. I hate that we just signed Ched Evans, but we've got the most decent, genuine manager I can imagine in charge. I couldn't desert the club of my life. But I'd like us as a club to take proper responsibility for offering Ched a way back. Sheffield United just washed their hands of him, disgracefully tried to welcome him back and then turned Macbeth when everyone pointed to the blood on their hands. If he's our player we need not only to stand with him, but also to ensure that women's voices and opinions are heard and that we commit to helping to change the behaviour of men. Surely we and younger men and boys can become more than just a penis in search of some excitement. We don't have to accept that this is what our footballers are like, what blokeish men are like!
The club is wrong to assert we've signed him, that's it, we will not enter into any further discussion. As Spireitematt points out this has split the fan-base, like me he's even torn over his own reaction. Just sitting there waiting to become the Millwall of the North shouldn't be an option. The club has made this move. It should handle it properly ....... on behalf of all those who've spent their lives loving the place and wanting nothing but success.