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+----- Thread: Vic Says He Could Go In January !! (/showthread.php?tid=3555)
RE: Vic Says He Could Go In January !! - Salopbaggie - 01-01-2016
(01-01-2016, 10:34)aries22 Wrote:(31-12-2015, 17:17)Worldclassalbion Wrote: DDI find this incredible. What the F**k is Pulis doing. Surely you pick your team from watching them train. Why make these players train away from the 1st team FFS!!!!!!
I remember Steve Clarke used to pick Nicolas Anelka presumably on the basis of watching him train, but how many of us even wanted Anelka at the club in the first place? I didn't, based solely on the wages he was on, then vindicated by his subsequent off-field actions.
Sometimes there has to be a balance struck between a player's worth to the team and his behaviour. A player's training isn't just about running between cones and five a side games. There is stuff going on behind the scenes with Berahino, and you only have to read what Darren Fletcher has to say about that to realise that maybe Pulis is getting it right.
(31-12-2015, 19:53)May68 Wrote: But the fact that there are so many outcasts (i.e. 1/3 of the squad) makes me wonder what the common denominator is here, and it looks to me like it is Tony Pulis. Either we have somehow contrived to sign the most unprofessional bunch of players ever put together, or the manager is overly prickly and prone to favouritism.
Or it could be that the manager does what he thinks is best for the team and the dressing room. Would you argue that Alex Ferguson is the best manager we've seen in the past quarter century? He shifted Jaap Stam, Roy Keane and David Beckham from United because for one reason or another they were all causing problems in and out of the team and dressing room. And I don't see anything different that Tony Pulis is doing.
While I understand the point you are trying to make, perhaps not the best example as one thing Ferguson certainly did do differently
Alex Ferguson
Premier League Champions: 1992/93, 1993/94, 1995/96, 1996/97, 1998/99, 1999/00, 2000/01, 2002/03, 2006/07, 2007/08, 2008/09, 2010/11, 2012/13
Manager of the Year: 1993/94, 1995/96, 1996/97, 1998/99, 1999/00, 2002/03, 2006/07, 2007/08, 2008/09, 2010/11, 2012/13
Manager of the Month
August 1993, October 1994, February 1996, March 1996, February 1997, October 1997, January 1999, April 1999, August 1999, March 2000, April 2000, February 2001, April 2003, December 2003, February 2005, March 2006, August 2006, October 2006, February 2007, January 2008, March 2008, January 2009, April 2009, September 2009, January 2011, August 2011, October 2012
Other Honours
St Mirren
Promotion to Scottish Premier League: 1976/77
Aberdeen
Scottish Premier League: 1979/80, 1983/84, 1984/85
Scottish Cup: 1981/82, 1982/83, 1983/84, 1985/86
European Cup Winners' Cup: 1982/83
UEFA Super Cup: 1983
Scottish League Cup: 1985/86
Manchester United
FA Cup: 1989/90, 1993/94, 1995/96, 1998/99, 2003/04
Community Shield: 1990, 1993, 1994, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2007, 2008, 2010
European Cup Winners' Cup: 1990/91
League Cup: 1991/92, 2005/06, 2008/09, 2009/10
UEFA Champions League: 1998/99, 2007/08
Intercontinental Cup: 1999
FIFA Club World Cup: 2008
Tony Pullis
Manager of the Year: 2013/14
Manager of the Month: April 2014, February 2015
Other Honours
Gillingham: Promotion to Division Two 1995/96
Stoke City: Promotion to Premier League: 2007/08
When Pullis has achieved a quarter of what Ferguson achieved, I for one would not question his methods................ but until then.
RE: Vic Says He Could Go In January !! - betterthanbaird - 01-01-2016
I assume it's also a ploy to get them out of the club.
I don't know if any of you have read the secret footballer but he talks about being sent to train separately and it's widely thought to be Dave Kitson and he'd almost definitely talking about his time at Stoke under Pulis. I don't think it's very unusual to send players to train separately and it's clearly not harming them that much because Sess and Anichebe have both done well when they've come back from it.
RE: Vic Says He Could Go In January !! - May68 - 01-01-2016
Of course Fergie had problems with one or two characters over the years, but I don't recall him ever casting out 1/3 of the squad at any one time.
RE: Vic Says He Could Go In January !! - BaggyBomber - 01-01-2016
It would be interesting to learn, of these comments, are any made with real behind-the-scenes knowledge or if they are purely based on rumour, unreliable media information, Chinese whispers and individual supposition and prejudice. Please own up, anyone who's really in the know.
RE: Vic Says He Could Go In January !! - aries22 - 02-01-2016
(01-01-2016, 15:05)May68 Wrote: Of course Fergie had problems with one or two characters over the years, but I don't recall him ever casting out 1/3 of the squad at any one time.
Has TP 'cast out' one third of the squad? What squad are you referencing, the match-day squad (18 players), the Premier League squad (25 players), or the whole complement of professionals at the club? And how do you define 'cast out'? Berahino was named as a sub and came on against Newcastle but has caused serious problems as we all know, Gamboa was also named as a sub against Newcastle, Pocognoli's still out in the cold, Sessegnon's well and truly back in the fold, we all know Anichebe has problems keeping fit, and I also think we all know he was never worth £6 million.
Salop Baggie, can you really compare Manchester United with Albion? Aren't trophies won therefore irrelevant, given United's riches both in terms of clout in the transfer market and the strength of the rest of their squad? The principle here is of a manager dealing with players who cause problems. Ferguson was able to just go out and buy replacements for Stam, Keane and Beckham, and United were as successful without those three as they were with them. Albion can't do that, and it doesn't mean we have to put up with or otherwise accommodate problem players either.
RE: Vic Says He Could Go In January !! - May68 - 02-01-2016
(02-01-2016, 01:56)aries22 Wrote:I was referring to the original post i.e. the fact that about 1/3 of the senior pros were apparetly being trained separately from the rest of the squad earlier in the season, and some of them still are.(01-01-2016, 15:05)May68 Wrote: Of course Fergie had problems with one or two characters over the years, but I don't recall him ever casting out 1/3 of the squad at any one time.
Has TP 'cast out' one third of the squad? What squad are you referencing, the match-day squad (18 players), the Premier League squad (25 players), or the whole complement of professionals at the club? And how do you define 'cast out'? Berahino was named as a sub and came on against Newcastle but has caused serious problems as we all know, Gamboa was also named as a sub against Newcastle, Pocognoli's still out in the cold, Sessegnon's well and truly back in the fold, we all know Anichebe has problems keeping fit, and I also think we all know he was never worth £6 million.
RE: Vic Says He Could Go In January !! - Slick_Footwork - 02-01-2016
For me, this is being interpreted in the wrong way.
I see nowhere where Anichebe says these players haven't been training with the rest of the squad?
What he does say is they've been training 'alone'. My interpretation of this would be extra training, to make up for latch of match fitness. In other words, he's suggesting in this interview that he's fit, sharp and professional - along with the others who haven't been getting game time.
Am I missing something where he says these players have been excluded from general training? Seems like a forum interpretation of a one line quote?
With the exception of Poco and Gnabry, these players are regularly been included in match day squads - Pulis wouldn't include these people if they didn't understand the shape etc.
Shame they have to do extra training, but Pulis can only pick XI. When you have a squad of 20, people are going to miss out.
RE: Vic Says He Could Go In January !! - Beefy 1965 - 02-01-2016
Seems pretty clear to me .............
Anichebe also admitted that he has been training away from Tony Pulis’s first-team with fellow outcasts Sebastien Pocognoli, Cristian Gamboa, Callum McManaman, Serge Gnabry and, before his recall, Stephane Sessegnon.
RE: Vic Says He Could Go In January !! - Slick_Footwork - 02-01-2016
The quote is...
“We weren’t really getting a look in, but we’ve always been doing training on our own"
'Not getting a look in' is referring to match time. The way 'training alone' is said straight after that, it suggests extra training to make up for lack of match fitness, IMO.
It's pretty common at professional level for players to do extra training if they're coming back from injury or not playing.
I don't believe Pulis would include players like Anichebe, Sess and McManaman in the squad regularly had they not been training with the first team.
Also, on this basis, there would also only be 13/14 players training.
For me this is a generic marketing interview to show he's not as much of a gamble (lack of match fitness) for prospective employers. The journo says has interpreted it in the way it makes the best story.
RE: Vic Says He Could Go In January !! - Beefy 1965 - 02-01-2016
(02-01-2016, 20:53)Beefy 1965 Wrote: Seems pretty clear to me .............
Anichebe also admitted that he has been training away from Tony Pulis’s first-team with fellow outcasts Sebastien Pocognoli, Cristian Gamboa, Callum McManaman, Serge Gnabry and, before his recall, Stephane Sessegnon.
Training away from the first team ...........
Still seems conclusive to me
