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RE: On political analysis - 0762 - 16-06-2017
Protests/riots in Kensington tonight - no surprise as grief turns to anger!
RE: On political analysis - St Charles Owl - 16-06-2017
Yes that was predictable and disappointing. What gets me is they are protesting those who lived in the flats now being essentially homeless with nowhere to go - that is something that the Government should have done in the first hours after the fire was reported!!! Over here in situation like that FEMA (Govt body) will step in to provide basic needs such as shelter for those affected and often the military are brought in to provide the heavy lifting and organisation. This shouldn't be left to the local council, however culpable they are, there should be a national response capability for events such as this that is paid for and run by the national government!!
RE: On political analysis - ritchiebaby - 17-06-2017
You've got to realise that in the UK there is a culture in virtually every aspect of life that "it's nothing to do with me, it's somebody else to blame". Getting people/organisations to take responsibility for their actions is a major task. It doesn't matter who it is and in my opinion it's getting worse year on year.
RE: On political analysis - hibeejim21 - 17-06-2017
I'm truly staggered at the lack of empathy and humanity from theresa may. Ive never seen a PM so uncomfortable around ordinary people. The queen totally embarrassed her yesterday,there was a moment where someone cried out in anguish and the queen at least reacted like someone with an ounce of humanity. Then again may got her arse handed to her on news night last night,she has to be the most incompetent UK prime minister of all time.
The cladding is obviously the major catalyst in this tragedy. Why was it fitted? If it was for insulation, why does it appear that the lowest grade was chosen? This building isn't a low level office or a warehouse, it is where many, many people lived. The highest grade of cladding should have been used.
For this disaster to occur in the UK in 2017, in one of the richest areas of London is quiet frankly a national disgrace. Its the tories 'hurricane katrina' moment. I'm amazed she is clinging on to power. People were trying to point out this building was a fire risk for years,To insulate the elected officials of responsibility a political decision was made to give over care and management to a semi private organization who the residents do not have the power to remove as they have with elected officials. Thats whats really galling here.
RE: On political analysis - 0762 - 17-06-2017
Contemplate on the fact that all UK hotels of this kinda building category (and many smaller ones do it anyway) are fitted with some form of bespoke sprinkler system to enhance the fire safety status that many customers do scrutinise on the accommodation details. That 'says it all' for me!
RE: On political analysis - hibeejim21 - 18-06-2017
The prioritisation of profit over people has been going on for years under the tories. Everything is reduced to a spreadsheet.
Whatever your political preference surely enough really is enough now. Saving £2 by using cheaper less fire resistant cladding, refusing to put sprinkler systems in. Running gas pipes in corridors...... shows a casual disregard for people's lives. Contractors and sub contractors dilute accountability until no one is to blame for anything more. Its really making me quite angry.
The mantra "lessons will be learned" is spouted and enquiries kick things down the line.... but no one believes that bullshit anymore. The regulations were not tightened despite recommendations to do so,the government of the day (including one of mays advisors) ignored the warnings and in this case specifically a long list of tenant complaints were ignored.
They always wait for some major disaster before changing things. My heart just goes out to those poor people.
RE: On political analysis - 0762 - 18-06-2017
I'd luv to see the 'saving' on square cladding units and window units Jim! Multiply each individual unit by X, the full number of units that covers each wall and then multiply that figure by four - big bucks!! Did you know that many a QS employed for such projects receives a bonus on top of whatever salary is agreed!! These guys are regarded as paramount in generating 'savings' on costed multi million pound contracts. However, there should be a higher level Project Manager + an associated impartial Clerk(s) of Works to scrutinise any kinda 'adjustments' that could compromise said project. Sometimes a top notch Clerk(s) of Works is not even employed in order to 'save on the salary' and cut out on the close scrutiny that is actually required in order to endorse good practise.
RE: On political analysis - ritchiebaby - 18-06-2017
I must profess ignorance on building renovation procedures, but surely the work would be inspected by a senior contractor to ensure it met relevant standards, the job would signed off by a senior council official and a fire safety certificate would be issued by a senior fire officer. Or am I just being naïve?
RE: On political analysis - 0762 - 19-06-2017
A senior fire officer would generally never be near the formal conclusion of any type of building contract. References to fire safety and enhanced fire safety are in the hands of the various project officials and formal signing off of said project would indeed be in the hands of 'The Client', in this case the Council, and prob in the hands of a competent senior building control officer(s) or similar who should have read the full contract documents, the specifications, the materials used and their spec, the conditions of contract, clauses, non performance rebates and penalties etc etc. IMO the impartial scrutineer should normally be the Clerk of Works who I used to nickname 'the sniffer' in a respectful manner!! IMO these guys are invaluable when used properly as previously described.
RE: On political analysis - St Charles Owl - 19-06-2017
Also worth adding that all materials used would need to meet the current requirements for fire safety (or any other aspect of the construction), this would either be done through industry approvals as laid out in the specifications for any project or by the contractor submitting full data on an alternative to the Main Contractor and engineer/consultant for the project. Multiple people/companies would have signed off on all the materials being used as being up to the required standard for whatever purpose that material has.
Obviously at this early stage the cladding is coming under close scrutiny not as the source of the fire but certainly one of the factors that caused its very rapid surge up the building. I haven't read anything about it specifically but I am sure it carries some sort of industry approval with regards to the materials used in it that meets or exceeds the current building codes. I did see that the core of this cladding used material that is no longer allowed in cladding here in the US as prescribed by the current fire laws over here but it is still allowed in the UK and probably other European countries. Aside from other issues with these types of buildings, I am guessing that one of the eventual outcomes of this tragedy is a change to the fire codes with regards to the materials allowed in cladding, but as is often the case the stable door is already open!!