(28-12-2020, 19:08)Slick_Footwork Wrote:

(28-12-2020, 18:11)Salopbaggie Wrote: Slick I do not agree with the logic, we could sell all our players and buy cheaper inferior ones and use the same argument, that they are the player we could replace easiest or would miss least, until we have no decent players left.   Who would you buy for £5 million (£15 Mil /3) who would improve our team? Let alone expecting the club to achieve that three times.  What happens if we sell SJ for the £15 million and then the club decide it would be better to spend the money in the summer window instead, when we know which league we will be playing?  We all know how well that works out!.

I would not be at all surprised to see Johnstone in an England shirt before the end of 2021, if he keeps up his current form, so to sell him to perhaps buy 3 x £5 million value players strikes me as not the wisest thing to do.  Could Johnson seriously help to keep us  in the Premier League, maybe.  Could a new 5mil player, probably not.

I'm not sure what you mean about selling all players and buying inferior quality, I never advocated that at all...

What I advocated was selling an individual for a large fee and then using that fee to improve the team in several positions. Of course I wouldn't want to just sell him and buy another keeper, that would be pointless.

I think where our views differ is that I do not believe our squad has what it takes to stay up in its current form. I do not believe Johnstone might help keep us in the Premier League. I don't think it matters who we have in goal because we concede too many shots and chances. Hence why we have the worst goals against record despite Johnstone being irreplaceable, according to the general conscious on here.

I realise that last night's excellent team performance could cloud that. But my view is based on the entire season. Injuries, suspensions and covid isolations pending as well.

I think we need 3 or 4 players incoming to give us a chance of survival. If the cash is available for those, happy days, let's reject bids for anyone. But if we haven't got any cash and someone is bidding £15m or £20m for Johnstone, then i'd be inclined to sell if that money was reinvested in the team now. If could not only buy a replacement goalkeeper, but also a defensive midfielder, a better full back. And I absolutely believe a £5m defensive midfielder could improve us, we don't even have a defensive midfielder at the club currently!

I'm not knocking Johnstone, I acknowledge he's been very good for much of the season. I just don't buy into the fact he's irreplaceable. I believe that the whole is far more important than individual parts.

And my comment was also on the basis that he's got 18 month left on his deal. If we reject bids now and do go down, he'll be worth a lot less.

(28-12-2020, 22:26)Blue Baggie Wrote: You can never be concerned about losing your best / better players. We must take the opportunity to improve. This idea that new replacements don't exist is far to shortsighted. As a guide Liverpool are probably one of the best sides in the world ATM. Over the past few years when big offers came in for their best players Suarez and Coutinio. They were sold, they didn't see them as irreplaceable. They got Salah and Mane for a fraction of the price and just as good if not better.
This is how the best players can be sold and replaced with other great players.
Here endeth today's lesson.

(28-12-2020, 22:26)Blue Baggie Wrote: You can never be concerned about losing your best / better players. We must take the opportunity to improve. This idea that new replacements don't exist is far to shortsighted. As a guide Liverpool are probably one of the best sides in the world ATM. Over the past few years when big offers came in for their best players Suarez and Coutinio. They were sold, they didn't see them as irreplaceable. They got Salah and Mane for a fraction of the price and just as good if not better.
This is how the best players can be sold and replaced with other great players.
Here endeth today's lesson.

(28-12-2020, 23:13)Salopbaggie Wrote:

(28-12-2020, 22:26)Blue Baggie Wrote: You can never be concerned about losing your best / better players. We must take the opportunity to improve. This idea that new replacements don't exist is far to shortsighted. As a guide Liverpool are probably one of the best sides in the world ATM. Over the past few years when big offers came in for their best players Suarez and Coutinio. They were sold, they didn't see them as irreplaceable. They got Salah and Mane for a fraction of the price and just as good if not better.
This is how the best players can be sold and replaced with other great players.
Here endeth today's lesson.

Neither Suarez or Coutino left because, Liverpool were made an offer they could not refuse.  Suarez say's he left because Liverpool did not qualifying for Europe and the hard time the British press gave him over the biting incidents . Cortinio had been pushing for his move for a good 12 months before it happened.  The money raised was not spent on the players you suggest it was spent on Virgil van Dijk and Alisson.  Did Liverpool ever get anything for Coutinio?

Today's lesson marked and returned      

(28-12-2020, 22:59)Salopbaggie Wrote:

(28-12-2020, 19:08)Slick_Footwork Wrote:

(28-12-2020, 18:11)Salopbaggie Wrote: Slick I do not agree with the logic, we could sell all our players and buy cheaper inferior ones and use the same argument, that they are the player we could replace easiest or would miss least, until we have no decent players left.   Who would you buy for £5 million (£15 Mil /3) who would improve our team? Let alone expecting the club to achieve that three times.  What happens if we sell SJ for the £15 million and then the club decide it would be better to spend the money in the summer window instead, when we know which league we will be playing?  We all know how well that works out!.

I would not be at all surprised to see Johnstone in an England shirt before the end of 2021, if he keeps up his current form, so to sell him to perhaps buy 3 x £5 million value players strikes me as not the wisest thing to do.  Could Johnson seriously help to keep us  in the Premier League, maybe.  Could a new 5mil player, probably not.

I'm not sure what you mean about selling all players and buying inferior quality, I never advocated that at all...

What I advocated was selling an individual for a large fee and then using that fee to improve the team in several positions. Of course I wouldn't want to just sell him and buy another keeper, that would be pointless.

I think where our views differ is that I do not believe our squad has what it takes to stay up in its current form. I do not believe Johnstone might help keep us in the Premier League. I don't think it matters who we have in goal because we concede too many shots and chances. Hence why we have the worst goals against record despite Johnstone being irreplaceable, according to the general conscious on here.

I realise that last night's excellent team performance could cloud that. But my view is based on the entire season. Injuries, suspensions and covid isolations pending as well.

I think we need 3 or 4 players incoming to give us a chance of survival. If the cash is available for those, happy days, let's reject bids for anyone. But if we haven't got any cash and someone is bidding £15m or £20m for Johnstone, then i'd be inclined to sell if that money was reinvested in the team now. If could not only buy a replacement goalkeeper, but also a defensive midfielder, a better full back. And I absolutely believe a £5m defensive midfielder could improve us, we don't even have a defensive midfielder at the club currently!

I'm not knocking Johnstone, I acknowledge he's been very good for much of the season. I just don't buy into the fact he's irreplaceable. I believe that the whole is far more important than individual parts.

And my comment was also on the basis that he's got 18 month left on his deal. If we reject bids now and do go down, he'll be worth a lot less.

I think we would all agree no one is irreplaceable. I totally agree that the whole is more important than the individual parts and I fully accept that you did not say selling all the players and buying inferior ones.

What I was saying is that is logical conclusion to your reasoning for selling SJ, you suggested that he was more easily replaceable and we could sell him for £15-20 million, then use the money to buy 3 other players.

My point was, if its a good idea to do it with the only first team player not to have missed a match all this season and most of last, then why would you stop at SJ, because that must indicate that other players are easier replaced within the 'team' (not the squad) because they have been over and over.  I fully accept that the position of keeper is different to the rest, but any less important?   Still no one has suggested a replacement we could get and yes he will be worth less in 18 months............ if we do not offer him a new deal and that applies to every single member of the squad whose contract is up in 18 months. As for not having a defensive midfielder Sami plays in that position as well as CB.  If you are seriously talking about moving on players for economic reasons, then surely you should be starting with Gibbs and we would save 60k a week in wages. Plus his is one of the positions which needs filling most, good luck if you only intend spending £5 million though  

(28-12-2020, 23:23)Blue Baggie Wrote:

(28-12-2020, 23:13)Salopbaggie Wrote:

(28-12-2020, 22:26)Blue Baggie Wrote: You can never be concerned about losing your best / better players. We must take the opportunity to improve. This idea that new replacements don't exist is far to shortsighted. As a guide Liverpool are probably one of the best sides in the world ATM. Over the past few years when big offers came in for their best players Suarez and Coutinio. They were sold, they didn't see them as irreplaceable. They got Salah and Mane for a fraction of the price and just as good if not better.
This is how the best players can be sold and replaced with other great players.
Here endeth today's lesson.

Neither Suarez or Coutino left because, Liverpool were made an offer they could not refuse.  Suarez say's he left because Liverpool did not qualifying for Europe and the hard time the British press gave him over the biting incidents . Cortinio had been pushing for his move for a good 12 months before it happened.  The money raised was not spent on the players you suggest it was spent on Virgil van Dijk and Alisson.  Did Liverpool ever get anything for Coutinio?

Today's lesson marked and returned      

A very unusual reply ? I never mentioned why either player left. I never mentioned how the transfer money was spent either. I don't think a centre half and a goalkeeper could be described as replacements. Together with the sums don't add up. 
Was this a wind up I ask myself.