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+----- Thread: What We Already Knew (/showthread.php?tid=7759)
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What We Already Knew - Arcane Astral Aeons - 05-11-2018
so good old James Mclean
is being investigated by the F.A
for calling the Stoke fans "uneducated cavemen"
over his (yet) again poppy stance
how can the F.A do this?
we all know Stoke fans are "uneducated cavemen"
RE: What We Already Knew - Salopbaggie - 05-11-2018
To be fair he did say "a section" (such a polite lad) who were booing him for his poppy stance. I find it interesting that no-one 'so far' has criticised Matic who has already released a statement that he will not wear a poppy during United's game on Remembrance Sunday, itself.
In his statement, Matic said: "I recognise fully why people wear poppies, I totally respect everyone's right to do so and I have total sympathy for anyone who has lost loved ones due to conflict. Jowever, for me it is only a reminder of an attack that I felt personally as a young, frightened 12-year old boy living in Vrelo, as my country was devastated by the bombing of Serbia in 1999. Whilst I have done so previously, on reflection I now don't feel it is right for me to wear the poppy on my shirt. I do not want to undermine the poppy as a symbol of pride within Britain or offend anyone, however, we are all a product of our own upbringing and this is a personal choice for the reasons outlined.
"I hope everyone understands my reasons now that I have explained them and I can concentrate on helping the team in the games that lie ahead."
RE: What We Already Knew - St Charles Owl - 05-11-2018
The media have a role to play in this as well. Its no secret about McLean’s stance nor his reasoning behind it, but I am also sure he doesn’t issue a statement or say anything about it every year. The reason its in the news is that at least one journalist asks him the same question every year as if its going to have a different answer, and then it becomes a news story for a few days. No one should be ever forced to wear a poppy, its a personal thing for often personal reasons and maybe back in the day when nearly all players in the top flight were British it was ok but now the PL is full of people from differnt countries and cultures where the poppy can mean absolutely nothing or as these two say it means something very personal but in a negative way for them.
RE: What We Already Knew - Arcane Astral Aeons - 05-11-2018
SCO
apparently friends of his were killed by british forces in Northern Ireland
what i cant understand is.....he actually plays for the Republic Of Ireland
is he North?...Or South?
RE: What We Already Knew - St Charles Owl - 05-11-2018
(05-11-2018, 21:33)The Quantum Enigma Wrote: SCO
apparently friends of his were killed by british forces in Northern Ireland
what i cant understand is.....he actually plays for the Republic Of Ireland
is he North?...Or South?
Yes, his reasons for not wearing a poppy are well known. I would imagine he identifies as Irish rather than British even though he is from the North. I also think it’s the case that the Irish FA have always allowed NI Catholics to play for them if the player wants that.
My point is do the media need to bring it up every year?
RE: What We Already Knew - 4evaabaggie - 06-11-2018
He is northern Irish but I think one of his ancestors once picked a four leaf clover whilst in the republic and that, by fifa rules means he is eligible to play for the south, very similar to American soldiers who got a medal for flying over northern Ireland as they had been near a conflict zone ..... that might not be totally true but you get the jist.
RE: What We Already Knew - Ska'dForLife-WBA - 06-11-2018
Under the terms of the Good Friday Agreement, people in Northern Ireland are entitled to hold an Irish passport, a British passport or both, so it's not just an FA or FIFA ruling; McClean is (presumably) an Irish citizen by choice and by law.
The media, sadly, will do anything that shifts copies and generates clicks, and there's not a lot that can be done about that except to boycott the worst offenders for sensationalism and mob-baiting.
The funny thing is that back in the days when it was mostly British players in the league, we didn't do poppies on shirts. Every club observed a minute's silence before Saturday 3pm kick-off on the day before Remembrance Sunday, and if your side was away that week, so be it. It's only within the last ten or fifteen years that the shirt thing has come about, and clubs having their remembrance ceremony in October because it's the closest home game to the 11th. I understand why, and I sympathise with the reasons (if nothing else, it generates more money for the Royal British Legion, which is unequivocally a good thing), but it also starts to feel a bit more hollow and artificial as players from all around the world are wearing a symbol they don't even understand, and some are put in the position of being pariahs because they refrain on grounds of conscience.
Then again, at least the silence is impeccably observed nowadays. Back in the day, when it was more "authentic", the band of dickheads you get at every ground would usually end up chanting through it. Swings and roundabouts, I suppose.
RE: What We Already Knew - hibeejim21 - 06-11-2018
(06-11-2018, 15:27)Ska\dForLife-WBA Wrote: Under the terms of the Good Friday Agreement, people in Northern Ireland are entitled to hold an Irish passport, a British passport or both, so it's not just an FA or FIFA ruling; McClean is (presumably) an Irish citizen by choice and by law.
The media, sadly, will do anything that shifts copies and generates clicks, and there's not a lot that can be done about that except to boycott the worst offenders for sensationalism and mob-baiting.
The funny thing is that back in the days when it was mostly British players in the league, we didn't do poppies on shirts. Every club observed a minute's silence before Saturday 3pm kick-off on the day before Remembrance Sunday, and if your side was away that week, so be it. It's only within the last ten or fifteen years that the shirt thing has come about, and clubs having their remembrance ceremony in October because it's the closest home game to the 11th. I understand why, and I sympathise with the reasons (if nothing else, it generates more money for the Royal British Legion, which is unequivocally a good thing), but it also starts to feel a bit more hollow and artificial as players from all around the world are wearing a symbol they don't even understand, and some are put in the position of being pariahs because they refrain on grounds of conscience.
Then again, at least the silence is impeccably observed nowadays. Back in the day, when it was more "authentic", the band of dickheads you get at every ground would usually end up chanting through it. Swings and roundabouts, I suppose.
Absolutely spot on.
However anyone on the island of Ireland was entitled to a Republic passport long before the GFA as far as I know.
As for mc clean he is 100% irish, not "northern irish", he doesn't need any spurious links to claim that either. His reasons for not wearing the poppy might not be popular in some quarters but they are totally understandable and he has explained the reasoning behind it repeatedly.
RE: What We Already Knew - BaggieSteve - 06-11-2018
(06-11-2018, 15:52)hibeejim21 Wrote:(06-11-2018, 15:27)Ska\dForLife-WBA Wrote: Under the terms of the Good Friday Agreement, people in Northern Ireland are entitled to hold an Irish passport, a British passport or both, so it's not just an FA or FIFA ruling; McClean is (presumably) an Irish citizen by choice and by law.
The media, sadly, will do anything that shifts copies and generates clicks, and there's not a lot that can be done about that except to boycott the worst offenders for sensationalism and mob-baiting.
The funny thing is that back in the days when it was mostly British players in the league, we didn't do poppies on shirts. Every club observed a minute's silence before Saturday 3pm kick-off on the day before Remembrance Sunday, and if your side was away that week, so be it. It's only within the last ten or fifteen years that the shirt thing has come about, and clubs having their remembrance ceremony in October because it's the closest home game to the 11th. I understand why, and I sympathise with the reasons (if nothing else, it generates more money for the Royal British Legion, which is unequivocally a good thing), but it also starts to feel a bit more hollow and artificial as players from all around the world are wearing a symbol they don't even understand, and some are put in the position of being pariahs because they refrain on grounds of conscience.
Then again, at least the silence is impeccably observed nowadays. Back in the day, when it was more "authentic", the band of dickheads you get at every ground would usually end up chanting through it. Swings and roundabouts, I suppose.
Absolutely spot on.
However anyone on the island of Ireland was entitled to a Republic passport long before the GFA as far as I know.
As for mc clean he is 100% irish, not "northern irish", he doesn't need any spurious links to claim that either. His reasons for not wearing the poppy might not be popular in some quarters but they are totally understandable and he has explained the reasoning behind it repeatedly.
Jim, totally agree
RE: What We Already Knew - St Charles Owl - 06-11-2018
(06-11-2018, 15:52)hibeejim21 Wrote:(06-11-2018, 15:27)Ska\dForLife-WBA Wrote: Under the terms of the Good Friday Agreement, people in Northern Ireland are entitled to hold an Irish passport, a British passport or both, so it's not just an FA or FIFA ruling; McClean is (presumably) an Irish citizen by choice and by law.
The media, sadly, will do anything that shifts copies and generates clicks, and there's not a lot that can be done about that except to boycott the worst offenders for sensationalism and mob-baiting.
The funny thing is that back in the days when it was mostly British players in the league, we didn't do poppies on shirts. Every club observed a minute's silence before Saturday 3pm kick-off on the day before Remembrance Sunday, and if your side was away that week, so be it. It's only within the last ten or fifteen years that the shirt thing has come about, and clubs having their remembrance ceremony in October because it's the closest home game to the 11th. I understand why, and I sympathise with the reasons (if nothing else, it generates more money for the Royal British Legion, which is unequivocally a good thing), but it also starts to feel a bit more hollow and artificial as players from all around the world are wearing a symbol they don't even understand, and some are put in the position of being pariahs because they refrain on grounds of conscience.
Then again, at least the silence is impeccably observed nowadays. Back in the day, when it was more "authentic", the band of dickheads you get at every ground would usually end up chanting through it. Swings and roundabouts, I suppose.
Absolutely spot on.
However anyone on the island of Ireland was entitled to a Republic passport long before the GFA as far as I know.
As for mc clean he is 100% irish, not "northern irish", he doesn't need any spurious links to claim that either. His reasons for not wearing the poppy might not be popular in some quarters but they are totally understandable and he has explained the reasoning behind it repeatedly.
He is 100% Irish except for the fact he was born in Northern Ireland and played for the U21 Northern Ireland international team so had to apply to FIFA for international clearance to switch to playing for the Republic. He is certainly Irish, as in the collective term.